Witnesses had less detailed recollections than the account provided by Cassidy Hutchinson of a furious president reaching for the steering wheel when told he could not go to the Capitol.
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President Donald J. Trump exiting the presidential S.U.V., with Bobby Engel, a Secret Service agent, at right. A former White House aide recalled hearing about Mr. Trump lunging at Mr. Engel in the vehicle on Jan. 6, 2021, but others have given less detailed accounts.
The House Jan. 6 committee’s final report provides new details of its efforts to get to the bottom of one of the most explosive pieces of the public testimony heard by the committee — an account of President Donald J. Trump trying to grab the steering wheel of his S.U.V. just before the assault on the Capitol and lunging at a Secret Service agent — but was inconclusive about the details of what happened.
In riveting televised testimony, Cassidy Hutchinson, a former White House aide, had recounted for the committee being told by Anthony M. Ornato, the White House deputy chief of staff and an active Secret Service agent, that Mr. Trump had reacted with fury when informed on Jan. 6, 2021, that he could not travel to the Capitol.
“I noticed the head of Mr. Trump’s security detail sitting in a chair, looking somewhat discombobulated, a little lost,” Ms. Hutchinson said at the June hearing, describing the scene inside the West Wing soon after the incident and referring to an agent named Bobby Engel.
“I looked at Tony,” Ms. Hutchinson recounted, referring to Mr. Ornato. “And he had said, ‘Did you f-ing hear what happened in the Beast?’ I said, ‘No, Tony, I just got back, what happened?’”
In her account, Mr. Ornato described in detail Mr. Trump growing angry in his armored vehicle when he was told he could not join the thousands of his supporters who were marching to the Capitol following his address near the White House.
Understand the Events on Jan. 6
- Timeline: On Jan. 6, 2021, 64 days after Election Day 2020, a mob of supporters of President Donald J. Trump raided the Capitol. Here is a close look at how the attack unfolded.
- A Day of Rage: Using thousands of videos and police radio communications, a Times investigation reconstructed in detail what happened — and why.
- Lost Lives: A bipartisan Senate report found that at least seven people died in connection with the attack.
- Jan. 6 Attendees: To many of those who attended the Trump rally but never breached the Capitol, that date wasn’t a dark day for the nation. It was a new start.
“The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, ‘Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We’re going back to the West Wing, we’re not going to the Capitol,’” she said Mr. Ornato told her. “Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel.”
She said that Mr. Ornato “had motioned toward his clavicles.”
The report said that “another witness, a White House employee with national security responsibilities, provided the committee with a similar description: Ornato related the ‘irate’ interaction in the presidential vehicle to this individual in Ornato’s White House office with Engel present.”
The committee’s report said Mr. Ornato, when questioned by the panel, said that he had no memory of the conversations recounted by Ms. Hutchinson and the other witness, and that “he had no knowledge at all about the president’s anger.”
ImageCassidy Hutchinson, a former White House aide, recounted the story during televised testimony this summer.Credit…Haiyun Jiang/The New York Times
Mr. Engel, in an initial interview with the committee before Ms. Hutchinson’s testimony, conceded that Mr. Trump had wanted to go to the Capitol but said he recalled little else. In later interviews with the committee, Mr. Engel and the driver of the S.U.V. described Mr. Trump as angry about Mr. Engel’s decision that he could not go to the Capitol. But Mr. Engel said he did not recall the conversation with Mr. Ornato described by Ms. Hutchinson and “indicated he did not recall President Trump gesturing toward him.”
The driver, the report said, indicated that Mr. Trump was angrier than described by Mr. Engel in either interview, but “testified that he did not recall seeing what President Trump was doing and did not recall whether there was movement.”
Two other witnesses, a Washington, D.C., police officer and a Secret Service agent, confirmed that Mr. Trump was furious about the decision not to take him to the Capitol. The committee used Ms. Hutchinson’s testimony to break open accounts from others about how eager Mr. Trump was to join his supporters.
In a transcript of one of her interviews with the committee, Ms. Hutchinson said that her initial lawyer, Stefan Passantino, suggested that she could tell the panel that she “can’t recall” information, including in relation to the story about Mr. Ornato and the car, despite her having clear recollections. Mr. Passantino has denied coaching her to be uncooperative or trying to influence her testimony.
Much of what Ms. Hutchinson said about Mr. Trump and activities of her boss, Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, has been corroborated by others. In a memoir published in 2021, Mr. Meadows claimed that Mr. Trump had not been serious about going to the Capitol, an assertion contradicted by a mass of evidence uncovered by the committee’s investigation.
In some instances, other witnesses have contradicted her.
In her public testimony in June, she described writing a note that Mr. Meadows dictated to her that was supposed to be released as a statement from Mr. Trump urging the rioters to leave. She said she recognized her handwriting as the note was shown. But another person working in the White House, Eric Herschmann, said that he had written it.
In the report, the authorship of the note is not resolved. The report says that the handwriting was “somewhat” messy and that Mr. Meadows placed the note on her desk, with one word — “illegally” — crossed out.
Source: nytimes.com
